First house lawn Help. Please

Lookout888 – posted 07 September 2008 07:09

Greetings all,I just bought my first house about 4 months ago in Bradenton FL. While the house is nice the lawn suffers. We have everything from bald spots to weeds. The grass is not nice to walk on with shoes, it is hard and pointy. We get hitchhikers every time we walk on the grass. I water 2 times a week. I have not put anything down due to reading horror stories. I cut the lawn with my lawnmower as high as it goes. The property was vacant for about 1 year with no lawn maintenance. I would like to do it myself and not call a lawn care company. Here are some pictures

Almaroad – posted 07 September 2008 07:36

Mike:Bless you, because you have three major problems as best as I can see: Major broadleaf problem Major fungus problem Grassy weed problem

You have some areas of the St.Augustine that will probably need resodding due to the Take All Root Rot. The easiest is the broadleaf problem–Let’s start with it. Go to Lowes and buy a bottle of Image with the Hose-end sprayer and use it. Wait a week and do it again. DO NOT SCIMP. The stuff is around $20.bottle that will treat 6000sq ft. Use two if you have to. Then go to the hardware and buy a bottle of Atrazine. It is only 4% so 4X’s the recommendation. Yes, the stuff that we use is 40%. The EPA cut the legal amount way down. In Florida things are different. Apply the Atrazine only one time at the same time as the Image. The fungus is way different. You may have to call in a pro. But do this: Go to the hardware and buy a bottle of Cleary’s 3336 and apply according to label. This will begin to clear up the Take-All or Grey Leaf. You may have Plythium which take a very expensive product to control it. Do not call Chem Lawn or True Green as they do not know what you have. Maybe the best thing to do is to go to Lesco and ASK for a really good independent applicator. Ask to see his license when you call him AND how many years of experience does he have. If he doesn’t have one. Say Thanks but you need a certified applicator with some years of experience.

The things I mentioned will cost about $125.00 and you could get it treated for that or less.

Roy

Lookout888 – posted 07 September 2008 08:19

Roy,Thank you. Would you recommend that I just call a “Pro” to get it fixed? Any Idea/est. what it costs to have a pro fix/treat the problems? Guess this all goes with home ownership I already have an applicator for the end of the hose, so I will run out today and get the Image. Anything else you can recommend I do. I will keep this forum updated with what happens. I am sure other new home owners would love to know:-p

Thanks AgainMike

Lookout888 – posted 07 September 2008 08:22

Also, The parts with the all-root. Can I pull it up and get down to the dirt and sod over it. Or will the new sod get it too?ThanksMike

Lookout888 – posted 07 September 2008 12:53

Ok so I hope I got the right stuff. It is Made by Image and the bottle says For ST. Augustinegrass and centipedegrass with atrazine

atrazine…….4.00%related compounds…….0.08%

$9 a bottleMike

Almaroad – posted 07 September 2008 17:47

That’s not the “Image” that you want for the small weeds. That is the Atrazine for part of the application. The “Image” that you want does say for St. Augustine and Centipede. However it is in a hose end applicator. Stating further that it covers 8000 sq. ft. Even further, read the label it will say A.I is Imaquine. It should retail for about $22.00 per bottle. You could buy the refill bottle which cover 6000sq.ft. However it must be calibrated with the original bottle for best results. You need both. Do not use the Atrazine at that rate as it is so weak. I’m not familiar with that particular bottle but 4% is way too weak. Us it but only cover about 1/3 of the recommendation meaning use all of bottle to treat 1/3 of the recommended sq. ft. The “Take All” is a fungus that will stay with the soil untill it is treated with “Insignia” which cost about $200/pound.

I would have it treated and resod next year. Also, check with your local County Extention Agent on the “Take All” life of fungus untreated or just talk with him on the subject. Best of Luck, If I don’t get back on a timely basis, just give me a little more time. We get real busy about this time of year.

Roy

[This message has been edited by Almaroad (edited 07 September 2008).]

Lookout888 – posted 16 September 2008 17:17

Ok I got the other image with Imaquine. I put it down, wet the grass well. I will apply it again next weekend. I also applied the atrazine to the spots I did not get the first time. I used 2 bottle of the atrazine already and only did 85% of my yard which is not that big. I used 90% of the Imaquine on %85 of the lawn (I can not reach the other %15 of the lawn with the hose I have lol will have to get another hose). As for the TARR, when we moved into the house the sprinklers where off, Could it just be neglect from no watering. When we did the walk through on the house the side yard was like straw. Or are we 100% sure it is TARR. If it is TARR, I have read some good things about peat moss. What is your take on this (even to try since it is cheapļ. I did not mean to sound impatient with my last posts and I apologize I was not expecting a response back that soon and do appreciate it. Any idea on how long until I start seeing the weeds die.

Again thank you for the help.Mike

Almaroad – posted 17 September 2008 10:15

Hey, that today. You’ll see weeds begin to die in a week or so. Image is systemic and it must get into the plant through the roots to be effective. You’ve got a good point inthat it could be suffering from lack of water AND fertilizer. You could buy some 15-0-15 and a spreader and cover the grass as well. But that grass is a lover of Nitrogen. Water, Water, Water. Make sure it gets about 1.0-1.5″ of water a week; could put a pie pan in the path of the sprinklers and let the water run untill the pan is almost full (3/4″) and repeat in about 3 days. A 50lb bag of fertilize has 7.5 lbs of Nitrogen. You St. Augustine needs 1/2lb/1000sq.ft. about every 6 weeks. This bag will cover about 15K of lawn. Good Luck again. Roy

Alex_in_FL – posted 07 October 2008 15:09

Nice photos, it really helps answer your questions.

Not sure how far you are along but you need to treat for diseases/fungus/chinchbugs before you do anything else. I would have recommended:Week 1. Spray for fungus and chinchbugsWeek 2. Apply light fertilizer and water well (use the pan method mentioned above, that is excellent advice!)Week 3. Spray entire lawn with Atrazine per the label. Keep watering.Week 4. Weeds should be showing signs of stress or dying. Keep watering. Week 5. Retreat entire lawn with atrazine. Spot spray areas with crabgrass using Image.

Image kills weeds extremely slowly (may take over a month) which is why I would go with it last. Also, by using atrazine you can spot spray with Image (saves money).

If you have crabgrass spary it with IMAGE and consider using a pre-emergent (yes it is late in the year but hey, this is FL and it does work – I had to put out some in my yard two weeks ago in a couple of spots).

Good luck and post us some more photos!

[This message has been edited by Alex_in_FL (edited 07 October 2008).]

Lookout888 – posted 08 October 2008 09:27

Thank you for your response. The person next to me has some brown spots on there lawn also. They had there lawn care come out and inspect. They did find baby cinch bugs. No adults. I have been spraying my lawn every week with triazicide. I have not noticed the sections getting any bigger. I have sprayed both image ( one with Atrazine and the one with Imaquine) I have not noticed any weeds dieing yet. I could not find 15 0 15 fert. So I put down some 10 0 10, Anything else for me to try or do? I am going to spray Atrazine again tonight on the big patches of clovers.

Don’t know what else to do.

Mike

Almaroad – posted 09 October 2008 16:56

Sorry I’ve been gone so long. What % of Atrazine are you using? If it was the 4% which is the type that most places sell because the 4L Atrazine is a RUP and you have to be licensed to buy it. If so, did you mix it at least 5X as strong? You should start to see the weeds dying sooner than that. Image is slow but has always been effective for me in about 2 weeks. It does take a lot more than you think. Most people just put enough to wet the grass but remember the measuring that I spoke of. One bottle will cover about 6000 sq ft. of yard. Measure the yard and apply accordingly. Keep imformed

Lookout888 – posted 10 October 2008 16:28

I just checked and I put it on 4 OZ per gallon in my hose end applicator.

It is the 4% stuff and the bottle says for 2,000 sqf do 1.1 pints per 4 gallon. This = 4.25 oz per gallon. If I do 5x the recommended I will use up 1 bottle in like 500 sqf if that.. Am I reading this all wrong?

Here is the label

Alex_in_FL – posted 12 October 2008 04:05

1. Triazicide is persistent, monthly applications is more than enough (unless you just like enriching the retailer and manufacturer)

2. I can not support 5 x label use of any herbicide by a homeowner. Miss use of atrazine by homeowner’s is why EPA restricted the concentrations.

3. Image/atra combinations frequently inhibit each other. Image is mainly absorbed by roots (plus some foliar) thus it takes a week or more to uptake enough to become fatal. Then it inhibits mechanism and slowly starves the plant. This time of the year it usually take several weeks to see results.

4. Atrazine is ineffective as a post emergent for most clovers. It does give pre-emergent control. Your best bet is to live with the clover (and any crabgrass) this year and prevent both next year with pre-emergent control.

5. Herbicides and pesticides are persistent plus translocation within the plant takes time. In otherwords, you can have to play Dr. House on a two week basis not daily or hourly.

6. I recall that clover likes phosphates so avoid fertilizers with a high P number.

Best of luck to you.

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex_in_FL (edited 12 October 2008).]

Almaroad – posted 12 October 2008 14:51

The good atrazine that is a RUP is 40%. 1oz.-1.5oz./1000 sq ft of turf carried by 2 gallons of water is the pro mix. The shelf stuff is 4%, so to make it pro quality you have to have it 10X strong + your image. Measuring it by gallons of water usage can be very difficult and deceiving. The 4L is restricted to .75oz/1000 sq.ft/year in some states including FL. Try this: If that bottle says it will cover 2000sq ft; mix it in a couple of gallons of water and cover a 500 sq.ft(20 X 25) area of your own property and check for the weeds. This would give you a 16% solution which is still a long way from 40%. Yes, the wrong application is putting too much more than the recommended times per year causes the extra atrazine to leach into the ground water. But the stuff out there is meant for persons who apply it too often. The problem is that it is too weak to be effective. Pull up the 4L label and check your math and then make your decisions. I will only apply atrazine 1 time a year at the 1oz./M rate and have good control of most winter weeds.

Lookout888 – posted 18 October 2008 07:21

OK so the weeds are dying in the area that I put it on at the rate of 8oZ per gallon. The problem is that was less then 500sqf. I am going to try to lower my hose end applicator to less then 8oz per gallon on a another section of lawn and see how it does.

Is the 10 0 10 fertilizer i put down ok or should I be adding something else. I see a little light at the end of the tunnel The grass is so thin now since the weeds are dying I am going to plug the big spots today( if you have any tips for this please let me know). Other then that I guess it is a waiting game to get the grass to fill in. Is watering 2 times per week still ok?

I am going to do the pan trick today to see how much water my sprinkler system is putting down.

I will also take some more pictures today( I know people love pictures )

Thanks Mike

Lookout888 – posted 25 October 2008 15:00

Well, I have not posted in a little bit. The lawn is looking better (I think at least) almost all the “”tall” weeds are gone ( sorry I do not know the names of the weeds). The atrazine is killing the clovers. I added some more pictures to the bottom of the first link I Posted (http://www.lookout888.com/lawn/Lawn.html). What is this weed? Is it considered a clover? It is in the sec picture down. And also in the pictures I just added The atrazine and Imaquine do not seem to be killing this weed. I have spent 3+ hours pulling these weeds out of a small area. After about 1 week that area looks really good.

I put down plugs in the areas where 100% of the grass is dead. We will see how they do. I also posted a video. I did not compress it so it is 100MB just warning for slow internet people Alex_in_FL – posted 29 October 2008 15:29

– The 10-0-10 is fine.- Rake up the dead grass. Floratam does not like to grow over dead floratam. – Not sure about that weed near the end of the video. – You might try using a product that has triclopyr as the active ingredient. Alternatively, get a sponge and soak it with a 5% solution of roundup and wipe on the leaves. You can use also use a postage stamp wetting sponge bottle (Office depot) to do this.

saltcedar – posted 01 February 2009 14:55

Weed appears to be Desmodium incanum.