wdrake – posted 22 July 2003 15:45
I have areas of (Bitter Blue) St Augustine and Centipede in my yard [NW Florida]. Neither grass shows significant lateral growth along the ground. I’m following the cultural practices suggested by the University of Florid. I don’t have apparent disease or “bug” problems and the grass seems healthy and looks good. It just isn’t spreading. Soil is sandy, drains well and isn’t compacted. Limited/no lateral growth is not restricted to one or two areas but appears to be universal. I’m not getting the turf to fill in bare spots. Any thoughts?
Dchall_San_Antonio – posted 23 July 2003 09:56
I have thoughts but no suggestions to speak of. I have the same concern with my St Augustine. It seems every year about July it stops the lateral growth in the lawn. However, it doesn’t seem to stop trying to grow into my flower bed. Curious.
In my case(s) I pretty much know why the bare spots are there. I had done some work sawing CCA lumber in one spot, so that’s been bad for 5 years. In the other spots, it is fungal disease related. My neighbor has bamboo that hangs over the fence. When I cut it off, I don’t always get it out to the street right away and I can see fungal spots on the bamboo leaves. Then when I move the bamboo away, the grass is weak there for the rest of the season. This year I caught the spots early and treated with corn meal. They look pretty good now but not full strength. So that explains the bare spots but not why the grass doesn’t grow in from outside the bare spots. The only thing I can think of is the grass immediately surrounding the bare spots is significantly set back by whatever caused the initial bare spot. Mostly I treat the bare spot but not the surrounding grass.
Do you know of any obvious reason why your’s might not be growing sideways? Do you know what caused your bare spots to begin with? I’m thinking first of a chemical spill of some kind? Then disease, bugs, lack of water, and over fertilization.
wdrake – posted 23 July 2003 16:48
Thanks for the response. Most, but not all, of the bare spots resulted form areas that were once healthy St Augustine (Bitter Blue), but died out because of the dastardly fungus: Gaeumannomyces graminis var. graminis —a.k.a.Take All Root Rot. I soded two of the larger areas that died out with Centipede. I selected Centipede as some of the literature implies that it is resistant to this particular fungus. The Centipede isn’t filling in bare spots adjacent to the new (3 month old) sod. Nor are the few Centipede plugs I put out growing laterally. I know you are a Cornmeal fan. I tried it when I first identified the fungus and a couple of additional times over a two-year period. Never saw an improvement. I don’t believe the culprit is a bug, water, mowing height, sunlight, over fertilizing or a chemical spill. Likewise I’m not trying to grow grass over buried tree stumps, concrete, old tires, sunken ships or abandoned cars.
Dchall_San_Antonio – posted 24 July 2003 22:50
WHAT?! No improvement with corn meal?? How can that be???
What color is your lawn mower? Maybe that’s the problem (c;
wdrake – posted 25 July 2003 15:25
Lawnmower is green and I wear green shoes and clothes while working in the yard. I’m beginning to think my turf is being assaulted by space nomads with the sole purpose of inflicting damage in order to study an old man as he searches for solutions.
Will-PCB – posted 26 July 2003 21:30
wdrake,
Your wife been out on your lawn again?
j/k
Guys, what I sincerely think your seeing is a result of St. Augustines “slowing” during excessive heat. With each day up here looming in the low to mid 90’s and then evenings only dropping into the mid 80’s (sometimes high 70’s), your St. Augustine will slow down.
Have you ever noticed how in the winter, you see little vertical growth, yet you see alot of horizontal growth (and then it appears to reverse itself in the summer)?
Everytime I get a bare spot, I just make a trip down to the good ole beach right across from my house (where there is St. Augustine literally growing out and into the bay), and nab some of that beach sand in a 5 gallon bucket. Spread that into the bare spot and wha-la … about a month later … no bare spot.
Sometimes a couple two or three plugs help that along, but St. Augustine seems to love that salty sand.
Dchall_San_Antonio – posted 27 July 2003 16:37
Thanks, Will!! I’m going to raid the girl’s sand box right now. It’s washed but maybe the salt doesn’t make a difference. I’ve got sand behind the garage under the leaves, so maybe I’ll use that. If I have the same viola experience, stand back for an assult of my praises!!!
Will-PCB – posted 27 July 2003 20:16
You know … when I purchased my house, there was absolutely nothing but Dollar Weeds, Old World Diamond Flower, and bare dirt. It proved to be a diamond in the rough, because I had an unknown ace in the hole.
Living right next to me was a 57 year old retired Navy man, who grew up in Georgetown, SC pulling a plow with a mule, who decided that though his skin was black, pulling that mule around was just not for him. Luckily for me, he retired right next door.
The man has the lushest St. Augustine I have ever seen. Funny thing about Paul is that everything he touches grows. Now not having a green thumb myself, I decided to seek out Paul for assistance (like everyone else does). So over time, Paul has shared his simple way of patiently growing a marvelous turf grass, and so far he has not steered me wrong.
It’s amazing how well St. Augustine can take care of itself and flourish when we dont “push” it too hard. I take all of his advice without much question as his lawn was started from twigs pulled off a sidewalk at the Navy base, and it does little more than just simply mow. Seldom does he ever water. He occasionally brings home a bucket full of beach sand and spreads it around. He feeds the lawn twice a year, and he’ll pull weeds as he mows, other than that he simply lets Nature take over.
It’s not scientific, its not sophfisticated. It’s not super secret ninja research, or anything like that. It’s just simply an old school farmer, who has the patience to allow the grass to grow naturally, all the while having the wisdom to only give it what it needs, and nothing more.
Dchall_San_Antonio – posted 29 July 2003 15:33
Another question for you Will. How big a bare spot does that 5-gallon bucket of sand cover? Does it go on thick enough that it completely covers the spot with sand? Is it thick, like 1/2 inch? I can dust it on pretty thin with my kids’ sand toys, but I don’t want to build up the bare areas with a thick pile of sand.
Will-PCB – posted 29 July 2003 17:19
Well, I have no formula for that, but I just dont cover anything left thats living, and I only go as level as the surrounding ground.
I simply just get my 5 gallon bucket of sand, spread as much of it out as I think I need, then rake it in smooth with a plastic rake. Then I just add more until I think I have it just about right. Once that is done, I simply do a light watering.
Then I just reapply as needed.
grassman2 – posted 10 October 2003 11:31
Being fairly new to the turf world I have no idea what regular sand/beach sand does for a lawn. I know that gold courses ask you to fill your divots with sand but I never looked into it. Can someone give me a little lesson in how sand helps a lawn.
ktekare – posted 17 December 2003 21:53
its topdressing. fill in below the level of the existing grass, so the grass will move at the same height. Topdress fills in the low spots and gives the grass a base to cling to. You can use a mixture of sand, dirt, peat etc.
wdrake – posted 20 December 2003 23:09
“ktekare”, I appreciate the suggestion, but I have topdressed and that hasn’t improved the situation.
Alex_in_FL (Lex) – posted 24 December 2003 20:26
Had the same problem. Taking the scientific approach I carefully studied the situation. What amazed me is that this problem would happen while 10 feet away the Floratam (version of St. Augustine) would be happily growing over my concrete driveway.
Okay, so my solution (and it worked for me) was to rake the bare area until 100 percent free of any dead St. Augustine. I gave it a spot spray of fungicide “just to be sure.” With in 4 weeks most of the bare area was covered.
It seems that Floratam just does not like to grow over dead St Augustine. This would explain why the bucket of sand mentioned a few posts up works…for a while. Give it a try. Hopefully it will work for you.
Alex_in_FL
GregA – posted 30 December 2003 13:45
The sand does work. I will suggest to a customer to apply Milorganite and cover with sand to the thin areas the the St. Augustine won’t grow. I think the sand works as both a rooting medium and the color/white beach type sand reflects heat during the summer instead of dark topsoil absorbing heat and wilting the young growth. The Milorganite helps encourage growth into these areas difficult to cover.
wdrake – posted 03 January 2004 19:19
“GregA” thanks for the comments. However, I’ve used sand, top soil and compost (not all in the same area, but in separete parts of the yard.) All with the same results: No Lateral Growth
wdrake – posted 02 May 2004 16:01
For what it is worth I am now getting some, even significant, lateral growth. I’m doing nothing different than last year; i.e., same water schedule, same fertilizer, same mowing heigth, etc. Go figure!
Alex_in_FL – posted 10 June 2004 20:37
Check and see if your neighbor installed a new concrete pad that is attacking the St A. I am 100% convinced that putting concrete on those bare spots will cause the St. A. to grow over it in days or weeks at most.
Dchall_San_Antonio – did the sand help????
wdrake – posted 11 June 2004 17:54
I believe you have unraveled the mystery of my yard. Yes all my neighbors poured drives, patios, B-ball courts, etc. up to the property lines. As soon as the concrete set and the forms were removed my St Augustine, Centipede (and believe it or not my Bahia) started sent runners racing towards the new concrete. Much like the marvel of tirehoseitus [where garden hoses are attracted to auto tires and love to wedge themselves under them]; growoverconcreteitus is a well know phenomenon in NW Florida. I surely had forgotten this basic fact of gardening. Thanks for the reminder
Gillraker – posted 26 June 2004 21:40
Have you tried aerating? It’s possible the grass could only be heading towards the driveways, because they are new and the soil is loose around the edges. Most grasses seem to be discouraged from growing in hard compacted areas. A pitchfork, turning fork, or garden claw and a shovel full of manure or 16-4-8 works well in my area. ( NW Florida )
Top dressing helps most of the time, but some areas are just so hard, nutrients, water, fertilization applications, etc. Just don’t seem to produce the desired results. Aeration or loosening; breaking up the soil and allowing oxygen, water, dew, etc. to penetrate, will usually cure the problem.
A sure sign you’re in dire need of aeration, is moss, algea, or mold growing on the surface of the dirt. It’s an indication that water is just laying on the surface and not leeching through the soil. All turgrasses are discouraged by soil compaction.
wdrake – posted 30 December 2004 06:48
For what it is worth I think I have discovered the cause of my no lateral growth problem. Best I can remember I applied pre-emergent weed killer each of the two years prior to the problem developing. As far as I know most of these chemicals work by stunting root development. Did I cause the problem?
mikemaas00 – posted 07 January 2005 12:24
Preemergent can “prune” the roots if you are sodding or sprigging. The only product that doesn’t do this is Ronstar, but it is not registered for homeowner use. Don’t apply a preemergent six weeks before you dig up existing st. augustine and transplant it to the bare spots. Get those spots growing with a fertilizer and mow it 3 or 4 times before you go back to any control products. And forget centipede…it sucks.
mikemaas00 – posted 20 January 2005 12:15
Make sure you are providing your grass plenty of potassium fert…this helps the roots.