Steve G. – posted 14 July 2005 19:19
Just a quick question —
I own a new home in Oklahoma, with part of the lawn newly sodded in March / April (U-3 bermuda), and part of it seeded with a hybrid bermuda blend (called La Prima bermuda) — germinated in April / May.
Our lawn / home lies in land which was previously pasture, so I have lots of weeds / wild grasses which I am trying to eliminate. I plan to apply 2,4D and MSMA, but don’t know how long I have to wait before applying these without harming the bermuda grass (since the lawn is newly-established). Can anyone give me any help on this?
Thanks,
Steve Goss
cohiba – posted 15 July 2005 07:23
Steve,
The main thing is to ID the weeds your having problems with. 2-4D is for broadleaf weeds, the MSMA is for most grassy weeds but be careful this can be “hot” and burn the turf. The best thing is to read each label for the specific formulations you are using. If the label says you can go in after 5 mowings wait until 8. Be a little more cautious. Never spray when its 85 or above and never ever spray when turf is under drought stress.
The take home message from all this is:1.ID the weed.2.Find the right product to control the weed.3.Read the label. 4.Use it correctly, by doing what the label says.
If you do all this you should have no problems. Skip a step and that’s where the troubles start.
Good luck………………………….
sgoss – posted 15 July 2005 15:51
cohiba —
Thanks for the info.
As for the types of weeds, I have problems with both broadleaf and grassy.
My primary broadleaf problem (right now, anyway) is with horsenettle.
The grass problems are with crabgrass, and particularly some goosegrass and also what I think is foxtail (looks like foxtail to me, but it has purplish and whitish tinges on the primarily green stems, which I didn’t think foxtail had). Anyway, the foxtail (I think it is) is VERY problematic. There are clumps of it throughout my bermuda, and it sends up those seed heads (the “foxtail” part) very quickly — within a couple of days, long before the Bermuda needs to be mowed. Thus, I have to mow constantly to have the yard look even halfway decent (and I mean, decent from a distance).
I hear you about the MSMA. I applied it once before at a different house, to kill goosegrass, and all of my Bermuda turned yellow (much of it died). It was definitely hot at the time (as always during the Oklahoma summer), so maybe that was part of it. I’m sure it was also very dry (again — normal in Oklahoma summer), so that might have been part of my problem.
I have mowed probably at least 6 to 8 times, but haven’t checked MSMA labels to see how many mowings they recommend. Don’t you agree, though, that the MSMA is the way to go for these grasses? I considered trying some Trimec Plus (never used it before) to get the broadleaf and grassy weed all at once, but I’m not sure about that either.
Anyway, thanks again for the info, and if you have any more wisdom to impart, I’m all ears.
cohiba – posted 16 July 2005 10:16
Steve,
I’m going to spray next week for the Horsenettle myself(I also am going after witchgrass and paspalum). Using MSMA, I hope it goes well. The Trimec won’t touch it. At least not on my areas. Sounds like you have alot to worry about. I think I would push the Bermuda this season and spray Round-up when the Bermuda goes dormant. If you push the Bermuda now it will fill in and help choke out the weeds. The strong bermuda will be better in the long haul. The bermuda that is sprayed with the MSMA and/or Trimec may be stunted, allowing more weeds to encroach.
How about pushing the Bermuda and spot spraying the weeds? Or treating with a paint brush or wick applicator?
Just some thoughts of other options besides broadband spraying.
Let us know how you make out…………..
steveg – posted 16 July 2005 19:29
cohiba —
By “pushing” the bermuda, I assume you mean applying fertilizer. If so, I do plan to do this — just waiting on the next obvious rain event, so I can get the fertilizer down just prior. I have a 28-0-3 or something like that — high nitrogen — that I plan to put down.
Your idea of spot treating is interesting. As another option, I have considered going after the horsenettle with round-up and a brush of some sort, and just living with the wild grasses for now. Then, in the fall, I would put down a pre-emergent, and go with a good application of pre-emergent in the spring. If I am correct, aren’t those wild grasses annuals — which propagate by seed (I know the crabgrass is, and I think the foxtail and goosegrass are as well). This way, by next year, I would think I could stop alot of the grassy weeds before they start with the pre-emergent, and then more spot-treating with round-up or MSMA for the horsenettle might get me in pretty good shape. Dealing with the grassy stuff for the rest of the summer, and doing the pre-emergent would thus keep me from having to mess with spraying the whole yard with the MSMA, and risking the stunting of the bermuda that you mention (or the yellowing / dying that I dealt with in the past). What do you think of this idea?
By the way, what to you plan to use on your horsenettle?
Steve
cohiba – posted 16 July 2005 20:23
Steve,
I’m using MSMA on my horsenettle. I have applied PreM to the same area where I get the paspalum and horsenettle so I don’t know if the preM will work-even a second application. The foxtail I know even less about- sorry. I do know that the crabgrass and goosegrass are annuals like you say. PreM will control these weeds. The key to it is to break the cycle of getting weeds, letting them produce seed and perpetuating your problem. Kill the weeds before they produce seed! MSMA will kill crabgrass before the seed is produced. As will Acclaim and Drive. PreM will complete the seed killing from previous years.
FYI-the Horsenettle comes in every year on turf that is treated every year with PreM. Only this year am I getting around to treating it AFTER it germinates. Annual or perennial? I haven’t looked it up yet. I suspect perennial.
Try the Round up on the paint brush idea, I’ll treat broadband and we’ll compare notes. With so much Horsenettle to treat I won’t be able to do Round-up.
Good Luck…………….
cohiba – posted 19 July 2005 12:31
Steve and others’
I was wrong! Yes, I admit it, I WAS WRONG. It is not MSMA on Horsenettle. It is Banvel (AKA Dicamba) that is labeled for Horsenettle.
I went to check the rates today because I am spraying in the morning and sure enough, I screwed up. I was thinking MSMA when I should have been thinking Banvel.
So So Sorry……………………….
sgoss – posted 19 July 2005 16:23
cohiba —
no problem. let me know how it goes with the dicamba on the horsenettle.
In the mean time…I fertilized my bermuda yesterday, and cut it fairly low, to see if I can choke out some of the weeds. Then, I’ll go from there.
Steve