mike – posted 10 March 2002 08:49
I will be sowing a new bermuda lawn this year. I’ve been doing some reading online about the different hybrids. I’ve read some good things about Princess77, Triangle and others. I can buy these seeds online . I’ve also been reading the articles at the Scotts website. All of Scotts products are available at my local Home Depot. As a novice, would I be more successful just buying the Scotts stuff from Home Depot and following their “plan” or using a mix match of other products that I may have to order or drive some distance to get?
seed – posted 10 March 2002 15:27
Mike, traditionally the better turf bermudagrass varieties have been vegetatively propagated hybrids such as Tifway (419) and more recently Tifsport has received quite a bit of attention. More recently also, the seeded varieties such as Princess 77 have begun to equal the hybrids in overall turf performance. Among the factors that are important, high density is probably most significant, because this helps reduce wear damage and helps retard weed invasion. The seeded varieties have been inferior in density until the improved seeded types such as Princess 77 came along. I don’t know specifically which Scotts variety you are thinking about, and I don’t know anything about Triangle. But you can see some recent density data at http://ntep.org/data/bg97/bg97_01-5/bg9701t10a.txt and there is much more data in the National Turgrass Evaluation Program web site http://ntep.org
I don’t know about the Scotts “plan.” You can use the same planting and maintenance practices on different varieties, so if they are selling you a “plan” in conjunction with Scotts seeds, they may both be good, or not. Bundling of products is sometimes a way of passing a better discount to the consumer, and is sometimes a marketing gimmick.
Phil
mike – posted 10 March 2002 17:10
Thanks for the information Phil.
quote:I don’t know specifically which Scotts variety you are thinking about
I stopped by Home Depot today and checked the “Scotts Pure Premium Burmudagrass” label. The variety they use is called “Blackjack”. The bulk of my web searches for Bermuda and Blackjack have returned links about gambling boats. Go figure… 😛 Anyway, the grasses that are “propagated vegetatively” are sold as sod (or plugs) if I understand correctly. This being the case, sod is out of my budget. Plugs may also be, if not I think they may take longer to establish than I care to wait. So with this information I am leaning toward the Princess77 seeds.
My mistake about “Triangle”. It’s not a variety, but actually a blend of Sultan, Sydney and Mohawk.
Scotts “plan” I mentioned is just simply their instructions to establish a new lawn using their products. I agree that it’s mostly marketing. I liken it to the AOL of lawn products I guess. 😛
[This message has been edited by mike (edited 10 March 2002).]
mike – posted 10 March 2002 19:19
After doing some research at ntep.org, specifically comparing Princess 77 with Blackjack I have formed the following opinion. Princess performed much better than Blackjack overall. Blackjack did however score significantly better than Princess 77 in the drought tolerance test. Blackjack recieved a mean score of 5.3, while Princess 77 got only 2. This tells me that while Bermudagrass is often touted as very drought tolerant, Princess 77 requires plenty of water to remain healthy. One might think that Blackjack is a more forgiving grass to the novice.
Princess seed will cost me about $600 (OUCH!) and Blackjack will cost between $30 and $60. Im sure Princess would give me a beautiful yard, but it costs a fortune.
seed – posted 10 March 2002 20:36
Mike, thanks for all the additional information.
While the NTEP data is very helpful, it’s not quite up to the precision of Consumer Reports. These are biological entities, not engineered machines, and the rate of error and unpredictability is high.
The low rating of 2 for Princess in the so-called drought tolerance test may tell you something, or it may be an artifact. Going through the reports, I realize that “drought tolerance” was evaluated at only one location, Blacksburg, Virginia, and was described as “Drought tolerance dormancy.” Based on the definition set by the NTEP, it appears that grasses which go into dormancy during drought are given a low rating, with no consideration as to recovery and long-term survival. I am not saying that this is a bad test, just that there is not enough information to know what was actually measured.
The extreme difference in cost for Princess 77 versus Blackjack is based on what? What seeding rate? Normally lower seeding rates can be used than are recommended by seed producers, and more effort can be made to prepare a clean seedbed.
When really in doubt, you might consider doing half the lawn in Princess 77, half in Blackjack. At least that way you have a chance of making a better choice down the road.
Phil
mike – posted 10 March 2002 21:57
Phil, thanks for all your input.
quote:The extreme difference in cost for Princess 77 versus Blackjack is based on what? What seeding rate? Normally lower seeding rates can be used than are recommended by seed producers, and more effort can be made to prepare a clean seedbed.
I will get the measuring wheel from work tomorrow, but for now I am using a rough estimate of 7700 square ft.
My seed rate and price comes from this page at seedland.com. It reccomends 2-3 pounds per 1000 sq. ft. Their 25lb. bucket of Princess seed is $595. OTOH, Scotts Blackjack says 5lb will do 2500 sq. ft. so 3 bags at $23 comes to about $69.
mitchydkid – posted 24 April 2002 12:30
Mike,Your research sounds exactly like my situation. My yard is 7500 sq. ft. of dirt (new house) and I was wishing to plant Princess until I saw the cost. I then thought about triangle, but have ultimately decided to use the Scotts products because they are less expensive, available locally, and all the reviews of Scotts products on www.epinions.com have been very possitive. I think I have been making this whole “sculpt a lawn” thing way more work than it needs to be. I am going to plant the Scotts and follow up with their products. If all goes well I will continiue. Keep us informed on your decision and results.FYI I live in Round Rock Texas in case you wanted to compare results with your location.Good Luck,Dale
eljefe – posted 28 March 2005 12:40
Lowes has 5 pound bags of Princess 77 for $26. This is way cheaper than anywhere else.
grassnut – posted 28 March 2005 21:24
When purchasing Bermuda seed, one thing to consider is your location. If you’re in the northern part of the south, then Princess may not work well for you. Princess does not tolerate colder winters as well as other varieties. Yukon may be a better choice. However, for more southern locations, Princess produces an incredible lawn. It is a hybrid and is very similar to tiff 419. Being so, it requires more maintenance than other varieties. To really appreciate Princess, you need to be able to mow (with a sharp reel mower) about 3 times a week at a height about a half-inch. And if Lowes has it for $26/bag I would buy every one they had. I afraid you’re mistaken on that one. Check out this link, http://www.turfgrasstrends.com/turfgrasstrends/article/articleList.jsp?categoryId=1595 it has some good information about Bermuda seed.
fastforty – posted 23 May 2007 17:03
The P77 that Lowes sells is a 5-lb bag of seed/mulch combination. The bag says that it covers “up to 1000 sq ft”. It is $23.27 right now.http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=201135-303-201135&lpag e=none
[This message has been edited by fastforty (edited 23 May 2007).]