The trashy response you gave AFK only serves to steer someone away who otherwise might have come back and contributed their continuing experiences/solutions nicely.

Remember ... "Knowlege shared is knowlege squared."

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I also agree with trying fescue. Seems like a pretty darn good grass for Northern climates from what I have read on it. Sure looks pretty when maintained.

If you have the time or it isn't too late, address your dog's "potty habits" - i.e, either walk the dog and have it go in a specific area every time that you won't care about if it suffers damage (roadside rough area), or a spot on your property that you have designated for this purpose and don't care about (behind a bush or tree). If you are crossing open lawn area to get to the designated spot, you will have to carry the dog to prevent him from "going" along the way and defeating your training goal (hard to do with a big dog!). Another option is to have a small mulched area just beside the back door set aside for this purpose (3' X 3'). You can teach the dog that this is the place to go by controlling it's movements, confining it to this area (by leash) until it "goes," then praising it. Eventually you will be able to just open the back door and the well-trained dog will "go" in his spot.

I have personally opted to walk the dog to a specified rough roadside spot behind a tree line bordering my property. The dog (puppy - 6 months old) has occasional "accidents" while playing in the backyard with my son, resulting in small burned areas ( we often cannot tell that he is releasing urine during play, and even if we did, I probably wouldn't expect my 11 year old to stop playing with his dog and hose down the area - realistically, it just won't happen). I am trying Dchall's method of sprinkling granulated sugar on the burn spots to organically speed the rate of repair - not really sure yet how much it helps.

Regarding wear, Empire Zoysia wears very well - but I would not recommend any zoysia lawn up north - too little green time.

Your best bet (ONLY if you have full sun) is bermuda. It is tough, resistant to wear, and virtually impossible to kil - even intentionally. If you damage it, it will quickly grow back. The down side - it is high maintenance and will work you to death with frequent fertilization and cutting. But it can make a gorgeous lawn if you commit to the work.

St. Augustine will never hold up to the abuse of a large dog. It can't take the wear.

As everyone knows, this grass must be watered and does not take cold well, but other than that, it seems to be as tough as can be.

I agree with the idea of mulching the paths the dogs take, which are frequently along the fence. This looks nice as well and many dogs don't mind walking in it.

Bitch urin is murder on lawns, particularly if she is intact. I know of no solution to this except watering the area aftewards.

I just got a new dog, about 2 years old, and very frisky. She loves to run and chase, so it will be interesting to see how the St Augustine in full shade holds up. The grass really flies when she's caught the Frisbee and plays keep-away. With my older, geriatric dog, his problem was that he tried to bury his poop with poop. That dug up the grass all in one spot. St Augustine spreads with runners above the ground and his scratching would clear out the area pretty good. At least this new dog is running at full speed and not all in the same spot.

Kikuyu is an invasive grass in California. It might be banned in some places. Interesting to hear that it works in South Africa. I know nutgrass is a problem in most places but not where I live, so there you go.

I found that a mix of perennial rygrass and creeping red fescue do well. I overseed about 1x week with mix of sand and non-fertilized soil. I have my "race-track" around the fence, but it's expected. The reason I do not fertilize as the dog's urine contains nitrogen and I had slow/stunted growth with ferts. With male dogs, water 3x the amount of urine (I guess the amount of urine, never measured the volume) helps. With females, whom have a higher nitrogen content in the urine, water the area 5-6x the amount of urine.

I've established a poop area with play sand. Makes it easier to clean and not tear up any grass. I also keep the grass high, about 1" and only cut 1/4" at a time, alternating directions each time.

Most people understandably want to change their dog's urine so that it no longer scalds the grass. It seems obvious that urine must burn due to its acidity, and there are additives or foods that will make the urine more alkaline. The catch is that it's not the acidity of your dog's urine that scalds the grass, but the nitrogen content. (Dog-On-It Lawn Problems, Turfgrass Resources Center.) By making the urine less acid, you do nothing to preserve your lawn, and you also put your dog's health at risk. Carnivore urine is meant to be acidic, and this acidity may help prevent bacterial infections of the urinary tract and other possible health problems, including some kinds of stones. (Note: Other kinds of stones thrive in an acid urine, so if your dog has been diagnosed with a condition for which an alkaline urine is recommended, be sure to follow your vet's advice.)

What is the caring dog owner who also loves the lawn to do?

I have one word of advice: Clover. Over-seed your existing turf with clover suited for your climate and soil type.

Clover has many, many benefits. It stays green with far less water than grass. It needs less mowing. It shades out weeds. It fixes nitrogen in the soil and needs no fertilizing, ever. Most importantly for dog lovers, it does not scald when your dogs pee on it. Isn't it better to use a lawn plant like clover that is in every way superior to turf, including in its tolerance for dogs using it for a toilet?

Some people find the lovely little flowers a plus. Others object to them because they attract bees. However, they are attracting honey bees, and honey bees rarely sting away from the hive. If you object to them, just mow more frequently during the blossoming season.

Clover is helpful with erosion and is somewhat deeper-rooted than turf (turf is actually pretty deep rooted naturally, but every time you mow, you kill the exact same amount of root that you cut off the blades above ground, so it never has a chance).

Clover is a better environmental choice, is extremely beautiful, is cheaper and easier, and is ideal for dog owners. It also serves to hide dog poop. I can't think of one reason to use turf when clover is so much better!

There are species of clover that do very well under trees, better than turf grass does. I use a blend that was made for orchards. It might not be the right one for your yard, but you can check with the nice folks at Peaceful Valley Farms; they have been extremely helpful to me over the years.

i'm on my third attempt at grass. i have 2 large females, who are trained to go in their 'spot', which is about 150 sq. feet. my intent this time it to seed w/fescue & perennial rye, to increase drainage, & to correct the soil. my testing verified the above comment; the pH was 6.5, but the nitrogen & the phosphorous were off the charts by a long shot, even digging about 8 inches down. the potash was very low. i have no idea how to correct the excessive nitrogen & phosphorous.

i passed on the tomato juice idea to a neighbor this morning, found this site trying to learn more about it. i'd love more information if anyone has anything definitive.

[This message has been edited by priscilla52 (edited 08 September 2007).]