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Author Topic:   Get Bermuda out of St. Augustine
jimbocard
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posted 21 March 2006 13:48     Click Here to See the Profile for jimbocard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a beautiful Palmetto St. Augustine yard. I live in central Florida. I have lots of Bermuda grass coming up through the St. Augustine. What can I do to get rid of the Bermuda? I've tried round up and resodding but it comes right back. From what I understand it has a very deep root system. I have also went through my yard on my hands and knees and pulled out all the Bermuda and it just comes back. I have heard that Pro Grass will work but also heard it doesn't phase it. I have also heard that Asulox will kill it. I have some Asulox but don't know what strength to mix it. I've read that 1.5 ounces per gallon for crabgrass but can't find anything for Bermuda. Does anybody have any advice or suggestions?

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hankhill
Turfmaster
posted 30 March 2006 02:26     Click Here to See the Profile for hankhill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Where did you get the Asulox? I heard the
company that made it stopped selling it to
homeowners. (Only sod farms can get it.)

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jimbocard
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posted 30 March 2006 17:25     Click Here to See the Profile for jimbocard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a friend of mine has about 1/2 a jug and gave me some. do you know if it will work on bermuda and what the mixture ratio is?

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hankhill
Turfmaster
posted 01 April 2006 02:35     Click Here to See the Profile for hankhill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was able to find a label for Asulox on
the Web and it listed 419 (commercial)
Bermuda as a tolerant grass (as well as
St. Augustine). That would make me think
it won't do anything to wild Bermuda. I
think it's mostly for Crabgrass.

I have Bermuda problems too, but there's
not much available, as you say. Atrazine
may do something, but the Prograss is real
expensive, like $400 for 2.5 gallons.

There should be way to get the bermuda
by targetting the rhizomes, since
St. Augustine doesn't have rhizomes, but
as I don't have a DNA lab, I don't have
the resources to engineer a herbicide.

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Guy Riccardelli
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posted 08 April 2006 10:55     Click Here to See the Profile for Guy Riccardelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I live in SW Florida and have the same problem with Bermuda grass mixing with my Floratam lawn. I asked the people at Lesco fertilizer and they, like the Florida Agricultural Extension, told me that there was no way to get rid of the Bermuda grass from a Floratam lawn.

It appears that we have to live with it.

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jimbocard
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posted 09 April 2006 10:11     Click Here to See the Profile for jimbocard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can get a 2-1/2 gallon jug of Pro-grass from lesco for $250. I talked to my lawn service about it and they have purchased some and are learning about it so they can experiment with it. I volunteered my lawn for their experiments but they haven't used it yet. I've heard that atrazine will work but I haven't been able to find a source for that yet since its a restricted chemical and I don't have an applicators license. My neighbor has been using the asulox on his crabgrass and it doesn't even wilt it. The baking soda lightly sprinkled on the crabgrass is the best thing I've seen for that.

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hankhill
Turfmaster
posted 06 June 2006 00:36     Click Here to See the Profile for hankhill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting you mention the pro-grass. The
more work I put into the lawn keeping it nice
(part of which is fighting the bermuda) the
more I'm willing to pay for that stuff.
However, I'm curious you say you can get
it for $250 since the Lesco site quotes
me $380 for the 2.5 gallon jug. I know they
discount for professionals but you say
you're not an applicator.

With respect to Atrazine, it must be a state
issue. In Texas you can buy it over the
counter in liquid form (pure) or mixed
with fertilizer (Scott's Bonus S). The
latter is available from Home Depot.

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joefishin
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posted 22 June 2006 05:07     Click Here to See the Profile for joefishin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
St Augustine responds to herbicides almost identically to centipede. I spray Poast(Sethoxydim) on my centipede grass to knock out the bermuda. It sometimes takes 2 applications. The first application will pretty much stop bemuda from growing and competing. The second, if needed, will pretty much knock it out. Poast also kills crabgrass. Try a spot somewhere to make sure the St Augustine is tolerant. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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seed
Editor
posted 22 June 2006 08:42     Click Here to See the Profile for seed     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do not apply sethoxydim to St. Augustinegrass. Sethoxydim (brand names were Poast, Vantage, Arrest) damages St. Augustinegrass.

Phil

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stogey420time
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posted 08 August 2006 18:13     Click Here to See the Profile for stogey420time     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Man that suck cause' i like my SA grass and the Bermuda is an eye sore.
if i keep my SA grass long will it choke out the bermuda grass? i seems like it's growing on me!
how do i treat an SA grass the way it want to be treated? cause' i don't want to treat my grass that favors bermuda!
i also have dallis grass to but the patch of dallis grass is getting smaller and smaller (happy to see)

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Dchall_San_Antonio
Turfmaster
posted 02 December 2006 21:44     Click Here to See the Profile for Dchall_San_Antonio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you water weekly (not daily) and mow at the highest setting, St Aug should choke out bermuda. I have an area in my stone driveway where the grasses are encroaching. I'll have bermuda one season (because I don't water it) and St Aug the next season, because it rains. The area has been going back and for like this for years. And when our city people replaced the water line to my property, they replaced the dug up soil with their own mix (full of bermuda and nutgrass). All I did was water and mow the St Aug and it pushed the weeds out.

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Del
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posted 30 December 2006 06:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Del     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Asulox WILL kill crabgrass and tropical signal grass. Mix 1 oz per galon for Floritam in a tank sprayer. Spray lightly and BE PATIENT as it takes weeks to see wilting. I usually add a bit of MSO or sticker of some kind. A reapplication may be necessary but not for a least a month. Do not spray when the grass is above 90 degrees - like most of the year in Central Florida - it WILL ding the SA.

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ray
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posted 18 May 2010 06:35     Click Here to See the Profile for ray     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I live in San Antonio and Bermuda seems to be taking iver my Saint Augustine grass. Is there a way to get rid of it without killing SA? I've read about using Ornamec an/or Atrazine.

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Almaroad
Turfmaster
posted 19 May 2010 16:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Almaroad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guys: The new kid on the block is "Celsius" from Bayer. Agency priced @$75/10oz bottle. Google the label. I think you will be amazed. Good for centipede and St. Augustine. Fairly sure it will knock out the bermuda and crabgrass. I have Asulum and all the rest, but this stuff is going to replace some of that $200/2oz. metsurfurlon and other very expensive herbicides. Check it out.

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chitownwyns
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posted 20 June 2010 05:42     Click Here to See the Profile for chitownwyns     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
celsius is labeled for bermuda grass.

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beachnut
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posted 24 June 2010 17:20     Click Here to See the Profile for beachnut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I work in IT for a golf management company so I talk to our greens guys frequently. One of our clubs in Tampa is using Celsius in 419 bermuda and it doesn't phase it, so I really doubt this product is the silver bullet we're looking for.

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hydog
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posted 20 August 2010 16:05     Click Here to See the Profile for hydog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any other suggestions -- i have pockets of bermuda in my St. Augustine in central florida

Atrazine work?
Fusilade II work?
lower the watering and increase height of St. Augustine the only option?

Thanks

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Alex_in_FL
Turfmaster
posted 20 August 2010 21:10     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex_in_FL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Atrazine will stun the bermuda, brown it, and maybe... just maybe kill it.

Here is one idea - attach a coffee can with both ends removed to a 3/4 inch PVC pipe handle. Place the coffee can over the Bermuda area and spray it with roundup. Move the can over and repeat. If lots of St Augustine runners then twist can into ground and cut them to keep from killing St Augustine outside the can.

Best of luck to you.

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Gary
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posted 30 September 2010 06:25     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have St. Augustine Pammetto and mow it 4" high. The bermuda is outgrowing the Palmetto and choking it out. On my hands and knees pulling the Burmuda and 2 weeks later looks like I have not touched it.

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gatorengineer
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posted 12 June 2012 21:05     Click Here to See the Profile for gatorengineer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First of Sethoxydim is not labeled for St. Augustine, BUT it does not kill it in my experience. I've used it and tested it on small patches (as you should too). The testing takes about 12 weeks. You should apply some then 6 weeks later apply some more to the same spot. Expect the spot to die. If you are a fool and apply it over you whole yard because it worked on mine...well you are a fool. Expect your whole yard to die. If it doesn't, then all is well. BUT, I still would never apply it over my whole yard. Also, make sure you have good solid grass. Applying it to stressed grass will only create problems. A 8 oz bottle is $25 dollars. Just buy it and try it. It's worth your time for that alone. If it doesn't work, put it up for sale on Ebay.

I don't personally have a problem with Bermuda, so I cannot speak to the efficacy of different products. Try domyownpestcontrol dot com. They have the best prices with a great selection. I'm sure they have something that will kill Bermuda.

If you are trying to buy stuff at Lowes and Home Depot, you will not get what you need. For instance Quackgrass. You go to Home Depot and they will tell you that you have to pull it or use Roundup. The same with Bahia. Not true, there are several products that work on both. Ironically, Image (sold at both Lowes and Home Depot) works on Bahia. In addition, there are several products that control quackgrass Sethoxydim happens to be one.

I've personally stopped using Atrazine. It is expensive and I don't think it works all that well. There are several products that work better and kill more grass/weeds. Atrazine is about $4.00/1,000 square feet. Fusilade is about .$0.35/1,000 square feet and Celsius is $1.37/1,000. Neither kills nutsedge. Image is $3.24/1,000 and Dismiss Turf Herbicide is $4.28/1,000 and they control nutsedge and Atrazine doesn't kill nutsedge. In addition, these kill most of the same weeds that Atrazine does. Basically, Atrazine is worthless in my opinion. Tenacity is another great product for $2/1,000 and it controls yellow nutsedge.

Take some time and do some research. I've spent well over 20 hours trying to research what is right and wrong with my yard and it shows. If you try to get your research done in 1 hour, your yard will look like you spent the same amount of time on it...personally I like these type of people. They make my yard look great.

Also, the large pest control companies are a joke. They charge insane amounts of money and do what I consider a mediocre job. If you want a stellar looking yard that is tailored made to you individual problems (which the large pest control companies will NEVER give you) then take the time and do it yourself.

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aesthetics
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posted 24 February 2014 00:50     Click Here to See the Profile for aesthetics     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gatorengineer:
First of Sethoxydim is not labeled for St. Augustine, BUT it does not kill it in my experience. I've used it and tested it on small patches (as you should too). The testing takes about 12 weeks. You should apply some then 6 weeks later apply some more to the same spot. Expect the spot to die. If you are a fool and apply it over you whole yard because it worked on mine...well you are a fool. Expect your whole yard to die. If it doesn't, then all is well. BUT, I still would never apply it over my whole yard. Also, make sure you have good solid grass. Applying it to stressed grass will only create problems. A 8 oz bottle is $25 dollars. Just buy it and try it. It's worth your time for that alone. If it doesn't work, put it up for sale on Ebay.

I don't personally have a problem with Bermuda, so I cannot speak to the efficacy of different products. Try domyownpestcontrol dot com. They have the best prices with a great selection. I'm sure they have something that will kill Bermuda.

If you are trying to buy stuff at Lowes and Home Depot, you will not get what you need. For instance Quackgrass. You go to Home Depot and they will tell you that you have to pull it or use Roundup. The same with Bahia. Not true, there are several products that work on both. Ironically, Image (sold at both Lowes and Home Depot) works on Bahia. In addition, there are several products that control quackgrass Sethoxydim happens to be one.

I've personally stopped using Atrazine. It is expensive and I don't think it works all that well. There are several products that work better and kill more grass/weeds. Atrazine is about $4.00/1,000 square feet. Fusilade is about .$0.35/1,000 square feet and Celsius is $1.37/1,000. Neither kills nutsedge. Image is $3.24/1,000 and Dismiss Turf Herbicide is $4.28/1,000 and they control nutsedge and Atrazine doesn't kill nutsedge. In addition, these kill most of the same weeds that Atrazine does. Basically, Atrazine is worthless in my opinion. Tenacity is another great product for $2/1,000 and it controls yellow nutsedge.

Take some time and do some research. I've spent well over 20 hours trying to research what is right and wrong with my yard and it shows. If you try to get your research done in 1 hour, your yard will look like you spent the same amount of time on it...personally I like these type of people. They make my yard look great.

Also, the large pest control companies are a joke. They charge insane amounts of money and do what I consider a mediocre job. If you want a stellar looking yard that is tailored made to you individual problems (which the large pest control companies will NEVER give you) then take the time and do it yourself.



Greetings,

For twenty hours of labor researching, you are wrong. Mathematically wrong

ATRIZINE is roughly 85.00 for 2.5 Gallons
Say, you cannot find it for this price. I'll double the price Lets make it 170.00. Even at this price ATRIZINE IS CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP per K sq. ft. One ounce per K at the high rate. You are talking 320,000 Sq. Feet. Roughly 8 Acres.

YES, IMAGE kills broadleaf weeds BUT UNLESS you want the Bermuda to take better hold, DO NOT USE IMAGE. For starters it Yellows your SA Turf, unless you add Chelated Iron to the Mix. That was NOT the Bad part. The Bad part is, IT STUNTS THE SH*T OUT OF SA grass. Unless you are planning on going on vacation for two weeks, and you do your own mowing, IMAGE Rocks in this area. You will come back and your lawn will seem like it was mowed the previous week. This stunting causes the Bermuda to flourish, as it has NO competition with the regularly taller SA grass.

TENACITY IF you can find a Turfgrass Supplier ie. WINNFIELD SOLUTIONS, HELENA CHEMICAL, I would stay away from JOHN DEERE LANDSCAPES due to they Overcharge the little business' AND especially the homeowners.

TENANCITY (Mesotrione) works great on Both sedges and Broadleaf weeds. NO BERMUDA sorry

CELCIUS (Thiencabazone-methyl) works on broad leaf weeds and some grassy weeds NO BERMUDA sorry

ATRIZINE works in suppression only IF you use multiple applications. BUT in the process... You stunt the SA grass.
IF you apply past March in FLA, you run the risk of even MORE DAMAGE to your precious SA grass

EVERYONE Reading this TURFGRASS FORUM MUST Apply Pre-Emergent herbicide.
Late in the Fall AND early Spring. Early FEB. in FLA. because of ground temps. are above 70 degrees for the germination of weed seeds.
BARRICADE - (PRODIMINE) works very well and stays in the soil even after heavy rains.

GALLERY - (Isoxaben) The LEXUS of Pre-Emergent herbicides. Works even better, BUT is not as long lasting with heavy rains

SPECTICLE - (Indaziflam) SUPERB Might challenge GALLERY for the Title BEST Pre-Emergent. BUT THIS ONE is SOOOOOOO EXPENSIVE UP FRONT. It does have Pre and Post on certain weeds AND is Stable ALMOST one full year. So, IF you break down the two to three, OR three to four apps. of Pre-Emergent (Depending on rain fall) SPECTICLE is VERY VERY CHEAP.

Back to Bermuda in SA.
The ONLY Real way to eradicate it is FUSILADE. YES... IT WILL KILL your SA grass. BUT you have to make close to 3-4 apps of ROUND-UP and weeks apart to KILL off Bermuda effectively. Why would you want a dead spot for 3-4 Months to guarantee a TRUE KILL OFF of Bermuda? One simple app. of FUSILADE, (rarely two apps.) and you are ready to re-sod with SA. Once SA is established, YOU MUST Keep Pre-Emergent herbicides in the areas Bermuda once thrived. Preferably apply Pre-Emergent on your whole lawn. Here's a thought for homeowners... University of Florida AG school found out that weed seeds ARE VIABLE Well after 9 years. How many Thousands of Bermuda grass seeds do you think you have after a very short time of Bermuda infecting your SA Lawn ??? Last thought. WHY would you mow your lawn and mow over the BERMUDA infested area of your SA turf ? MOW this Section LAST !!! Even IF it is ONLY 20 sq.feet. You are Spreading BERMUDA Seeds everytime you mow your OWN LAWN. Once you are finished with mowing your lawn AND the small patch of BERMUDA, PLEASE WASH THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR MOWER DECK. Prefer. on your driveway AND NOT IN YOUR YARD !!! This prevents you from spreading Bermuda Grass seeds to other Lush parts of your SA yard.

Cheers
D

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